To κείμενο είναι από customer review στο Amazon. Ο τύπος που γράφει είναι είτε μουσικός είτε γνωρίζει μουσική. Ταυτόχρονα κάνει αρνητική κριτική για την Elisabeth Gaskell και δίνει 5 αστέρια στο Brockeback Mountain, βιβλίο και ταινία... Να τον βάλουμε να γραψει για το επίμαχο θέμα στην 'Επι παντός';;:flipout:
Resurrection-Mahler Symphony No 2
- Thread starter Σπύρος Σούρλας
- Start date
Δημοκηδής
Μέλος Σωματείου
- 23 June 2006
- 9,975
Οι γνώμες είναι σαν τις ... μύτες, κλπ. κλπ.
Όλοι έχουν μία, ακόμη και οι μη ασχολούμενοι με το αντικείμενο. Είναι προφανές ότι ο τύπος διαφωνεί για να διαφωνεί ....
Πάντως Ντοκ, παιδί μου, πρέπει να έχεις πολύ εξελιγμένη μηχανή αναζήτησης. Δηλ. τι στοιχεία έδωσες και τσίμπησες αυτό το κείμενο ; '.... Ποιός σε όλο τον πλανήτη διαφωνεί με την πανθομολογουμένως άρτια εκτέλεση του Κλέμπερερ ;
Απορώ βρε παιδί μου .... :flipout:
Όλοι έχουν μία, ακόμη και οι μη ασχολούμενοι με το αντικείμενο. Είναι προφανές ότι ο τύπος διαφωνεί για να διαφωνεί ....
Πάντως Ντοκ, παιδί μου, πρέπει να έχεις πολύ εξελιγμένη μηχανή αναζήτησης. Δηλ. τι στοιχεία έδωσες και τσίμπησες αυτό το κείμενο ; '.... Ποιός σε όλο τον πλανήτη διαφωνεί με την πανθομολογουμένως άρτια εκτέλεση του Κλέμπερερ ;
Απορώ βρε παιδί μου .... :flipout:
Απάντηση: Re: Resurrection-Mahler Symphony No 2
Ενώ εγώ έδινα 5 αστερια στον Καυγατζή τού Φασμπίντερ για το ίδιο θέμα..
Κατανοητόν τότε γιά το πόσο γλυκανάλατος είναι..
Ακου το μελό τού Brockeback 5.Καί δεν εννοώ για το θέμα,αλλά για τον χαζοχαρούμενο τρόπο που η ταινία το πραγματευεται.
Υ.Γ.
Πάντως γι´αυτό που έγραψες για το Brockeback ο Ντόκ θα βγάλει καντήλες...Επρεπε να δείς τί έλεγε(λέγαμε ειναι το σωστό)για την τανιά στο φόρουμ.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ενώ εγώ έδινα 5 αστερια στον Καυγατζή τού Φασμπίντερ για το ίδιο θέμα..
Κατανοητόν τότε γιά το πόσο γλυκανάλατος είναι..
Ακου το μελό τού Brockeback 5.Καί δεν εννοώ για το θέμα,αλλά για τον χαζοχαρούμενο τρόπο που η ταινία το πραγματευεται.
Υ.Γ.
Πάντως γι´αυτό που έγραψες για το Brockeback ο Ντόκ θα βγάλει καντήλες...Επρεπε να δείς τί έλεγε(λέγαμε ειναι το σωστό)για την τανιά στο φόρουμ.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Πάντως ο τύπος (Ολλανδός) που σίγουρα κατέχει από μουσική (το τεχνικό κομμάτι τουλάχιστον) , είναι ,αν μη τι άλλο πολυγραφότατος
Re: Απάντηση: Re: Resurrection-Mahler Symphony No 2
Σκοπός μου δεν ήταν να γραψω για το Brokeback Mountain, αλλά για τον συγκεκριμένο τύπο που έχει το θράσος(και την αφέλεια) να κρίνει αρνητικά μια κλασσική συγγραφέα για το κείμενό της, κι εναν απο τους μεγαλύτερους μαέστρους για την ερμηνεία του και ταυτόχρονα να κάνει review το Brockeback Mountain, ενα ζευγάρι Sennheiser, ακόμα και τα Windows Vista. Βέβαια, σε ελεύθερη χώρα ζει ο άνθρωπος και μπορεί να λέει την γνώμη του για ό,τι νομίζει, δεν βλάπτει όμως να γνωρίζει και για ποιούς μιλά...
Σκοπός μου δεν ήταν να γραψω για το Brokeback Mountain, αλλά για τον συγκεκριμένο τύπο που έχει το θράσος(και την αφέλεια) να κρίνει αρνητικά μια κλασσική συγγραφέα για το κείμενό της, κι εναν απο τους μεγαλύτερους μαέστρους για την ερμηνεία του και ταυτόχρονα να κάνει review το Brockeback Mountain, ενα ζευγάρι Sennheiser, ακόμα και τα Windows Vista. Βέβαια, σε ελεύθερη χώρα ζει ο άνθρωπος και μπορεί να λέει την γνώμη του για ό,τι νομίζει, δεν βλάπτει όμως να γνωρίζει και για ποιούς μιλά...
Απάντηση: Re: Απάντηση: Re: Resurrection-Mahler Symphony No 2
Kάτι σαν και εμάς,μονον που εμείς το κάνουμε γιά την πλάκα μας.:flipout::flipout:
Και όποιος θέλει διαβάζει και δεκτές όλες οι αντιρρήσεις επι παντός επιστητού..
Ακομα και γιά τοστιέρες..:music-smiley-005::music-smiley-005:
Υ.Γ.
Πάντως η κριτική του στον Klemperer ειναι επιεικώς γελοία.Μάλλον άλλον άκουγε..
Τουλάχιστον για αυτή την συμφωνία,που ασχολούμαι μαζί της(ερασιτεχνικά φυσικα)το λιγότερο 15-20 χρόνια,ας μού επιτραπεί να έχω και εγώ ο ´πτωχός´γνώμη...........
Kάτι σαν και εμάς,μονον που εμείς το κάνουμε γιά την πλάκα μας.:flipout::flipout:
Και όποιος θέλει διαβάζει και δεκτές όλες οι αντιρρήσεις επι παντός επιστητού..
Ακομα και γιά τοστιέρες..:music-smiley-005::music-smiley-005:
Υ.Γ.
Πάντως η κριτική του στον Klemperer ειναι επιεικώς γελοία.Μάλλον άλλον άκουγε..
Τουλάχιστον για αυτή την συμφωνία,που ασχολούμαι μαζί της(ερασιτεχνικά φυσικα)το λιγότερο 15-20 χρόνια,ας μού επιτραπεί να έχω και εγώ ο ´πτωχός´γνώμη...........
Απάντηση: Re: Resurrection-Mahler Symphony No 2
Υπάρχει Αnti-Klemperer Association.
Oπως και anti-Mahler.:flipout::flipout:
Υπάρχει Αnti-Klemperer Association.
Oπως και anti-Mahler.:flipout::flipout:
Δαμιανός Δημητριάδης
Supreme Member
Όποιος πιστεύει πως η πιστή ακολουθία μιας παρτιτούρας είναι ικανή ή αναγκαία συνθήκη για την καλή ερμηνεία ενός μουσικού έργου - ειδικά μάλιστα ενός τόσο ογκώδους έργου όπως η 2η - είναι ή άσχετος ή εμπαθής. 
Δεν έχω ακούσει τον Μέτα να διευθύνει το συγκεκριμένο. Όλες όμως οι ερμηνείες του που έχω αγοράσει κατά καιρούς, ή έχω παρακολουθήσει σε συναυλίες, έχουν διαγραφεί σύντομα από τη μνήμη μου, με εξαίρεση τον Τροβατόρε που έκανε στην RCA με τον Ντομίγκο στα νιάτα του και την Λέοντυν Πράις.
Δεν έχω ακούσει τον Μέτα να διευθύνει το συγκεκριμένο. Όλες όμως οι ερμηνείες του που έχω αγοράσει κατά καιρούς, ή έχω παρακολουθήσει σε συναυλίες, έχουν διαγραφεί σύντομα από τη μνήμη μου, με εξαίρεση τον Τροβατόρε που έκανε στην RCA με τον Ντομίγκο στα νιάτα του και την Λέοντυν Πράις.
Last edited:
Eμένα ,και χωρίς παρεξήγηση,έχει διαγραφεί και ο Mehta,πέραν τών ερμηνειών του.
Μονον σε κάποια Βιεννέζικη Πρωτοχρονιάτικη συναυλία τον έχω δεί.
Μονον σε κάποια Βιεννέζικη Πρωτοχρονιάτικη συναυλία τον έχω δεί.
Aυτή είναι η ηχογράφηση του Mehta
Από τις λίγες που έχω ακούσει, είναι αυτή που με ικανοποιεί περισσότερο. Βέβαια δεν έχω ακούσει κανεναν 'μεγάλο', όπως Walter, Klemperer κλπ, παραμόνο τον Abbado, στον οποίο δεν μου άρεσε καθόλου το tempo. Πάντως η συγκεκριμένη ηχογράφηση προτείνεται σε λίστες ηχογραφήσεων της 2ης(αν βρω το link θα το ποστάρω...)
Από τις λίγες που έχω ακούσει, είναι αυτή που με ικανοποιεί περισσότερο. Βέβαια δεν έχω ακούσει κανεναν 'μεγάλο', όπως Walter, Klemperer κλπ, παραμόνο τον Abbado, στον οποίο δεν μου άρεσε καθόλου το tempo. Πάντως η συγκεκριμένη ηχογράφηση προτείνεται σε λίστες ηχογραφήσεων της 2ης(αν βρω το link θα το ποστάρω...)
Ο Tony Duggan λέει για αυτή την εκτέλεση:
There are conductors who can put lead in the Mahler pencil of the Vienna Philharmonic. Leonard Bernstein was certainly one of them and in this work Zubin Mehta another. Even though Mehta’s Decca Legends recording (466 992-2) was made in 1975 it was only the third time the Vienna Philharmonic had recorded a Mahler symphony in a studio. For many years Mehta only conducted the first five Mahler Symphonies as he was on record as admitting he didn’t understand the ones that followed. Don’t see this as a reason for being uneasy about his commitment to Mahler, though. I think it shows a realisation that each Mahler symphony is different and that some conductors are not suited to some of them. His Second is still a contender in a very crowded market not least for this re-issue being at medium price and on a single disc and newly remastered. He takes an admirably fleet view of the first movement, rightly stressing the Allegro marking in a challenging and sometimes fierce conception. The dynamics of the strings are brought out to the full at the start and right the way through. Even the lovely ascending secondary theme has a spring in its step. At the opening of the first development the rapt lyricism of the Vienna Philharmonic’s playing is a joy with air around the music that seems to lift it on its way. In the approach to the catastrophic climax that will being in the Recapitulation Mehta allows his tempo to drop down for effect and then speed up prior to the crashing chords themselves which emerge clean and lean. However, this is a point at which the character of the sound recording makes its presence felt. It’s a very compartmentalised sound picture, not as rich in the bass as it could be. An excellent account of the second movement follows and Mehta really understands how this music must take the "sting" out of the first movement. The Vienna Philharmonic strings again play "to the manner born" so note the cellos’ playing of the counter melody at 86-132 for a real "Mahler moment". At fig. 29 Mahler writes: "Do not hurry" and Mehta observes this warning to great effect so the marking "Energetically moving" that comes in at 133 makes an even greater impression when delivered as sharply as this. Vivid timpani strokes herald the third movement in which Mehta shows a feel for Mahler’s quirkiness with lyrical themes pitted against bitter interjections from brass, snaps of the rute, and the unforgettable trumpet solo at the core delivered beautifully. No one quite approaches Klemperer as an interpreter of this movement for me, though. Only he seems to get the full measure of this piece, not least in the "Cry of disgust" that marks a crucial "way point" towards the end. Mehta just fails to overwhelm here, as I’m sure he should. This leads me to wonder yet again whether what is missing in this recording, as in so many studio recordings of this work, is the extra element "live" performance brings in this above all of Mahler’s works. As the final note of the movement drifts away we are left with Christa Ludwig to intone "Urlicht" which she does with a dark grandeur aided by a sumptuous accompaniment from Mehta and the orchestra which I found deeply impressive.
The last movement bursts on us well, though a little more richness from the recording again would have helped. However, one positive aspect of the sound recording now becomes apparent in the distant horn calls - Mahler’s "voice in the wilderness" - that follows. The placing of Mahler’s directional effects – offstage horn calls and band music – is brilliantly done in this movement with great care taken to create an aural stage between our speakers that adds lustre to Mehta’s performance. His account of the march (220-88) sees him pressing forward but there is never any sense of rush. The weight in the music is there, but I don’t think he achieves the sense of explosive tension that can build up as the movement reaches its two great climaxes, the second preceded by that remarkable passage with the offstage band crashing away, capping the first. Again Klemperer pulls it off, so does Bernstein and Rattle. But I do like the way Mehta clears the scene with some magical string playing prior to the "Grosse Appell" where offstage fanfares sound against on-stage flutes signifying the last sound hear on earth prior to judgement day. This is balanced superbly by the Decca engineers working in their old haunt of the Sofiensaal in Vienna. One minor gripe here and it’s something that has always annoyed me in this recording. A double bar line separates the last chord of the flute and piccolo on stage and the brass off stage from the entry of the chorus a capella. Mehta ignores this and has his chorus enter at the moment the instruments stop playing. Apart from ignoring Mahler’s marking this spoils the effect Mahler was clearly aiming for and I cannot understand why Mehta did this. The chorus sings magnificently with some wonderful basses especially impressive. Mehta’s sense of theatre returns as he proceeds to the "Resurrection" coda that maintains the symphonic argument but is grand and reflective in equal measure. This is a fine studio version in the Walter tradition in that he takes everything at face value and is none the worse for that. The sound is not without problems. Everything is contained with ease but there’s a slight "manufactured" quality, which isn’t too obtrusive and certainly benefits from the superb placing of effects. Unlike with Kaplan, the presence of the Vienna Philharmonic is a real plus.
There are conductors who can put lead in the Mahler pencil of the Vienna Philharmonic. Leonard Bernstein was certainly one of them and in this work Zubin Mehta another. Even though Mehta’s Decca Legends recording (466 992-2) was made in 1975 it was only the third time the Vienna Philharmonic had recorded a Mahler symphony in a studio. For many years Mehta only conducted the first five Mahler Symphonies as he was on record as admitting he didn’t understand the ones that followed. Don’t see this as a reason for being uneasy about his commitment to Mahler, though. I think it shows a realisation that each Mahler symphony is different and that some conductors are not suited to some of them. His Second is still a contender in a very crowded market not least for this re-issue being at medium price and on a single disc and newly remastered. He takes an admirably fleet view of the first movement, rightly stressing the Allegro marking in a challenging and sometimes fierce conception. The dynamics of the strings are brought out to the full at the start and right the way through. Even the lovely ascending secondary theme has a spring in its step. At the opening of the first development the rapt lyricism of the Vienna Philharmonic’s playing is a joy with air around the music that seems to lift it on its way. In the approach to the catastrophic climax that will being in the Recapitulation Mehta allows his tempo to drop down for effect and then speed up prior to the crashing chords themselves which emerge clean and lean. However, this is a point at which the character of the sound recording makes its presence felt. It’s a very compartmentalised sound picture, not as rich in the bass as it could be. An excellent account of the second movement follows and Mehta really understands how this music must take the "sting" out of the first movement. The Vienna Philharmonic strings again play "to the manner born" so note the cellos’ playing of the counter melody at 86-132 for a real "Mahler moment". At fig. 29 Mahler writes: "Do not hurry" and Mehta observes this warning to great effect so the marking "Energetically moving" that comes in at 133 makes an even greater impression when delivered as sharply as this. Vivid timpani strokes herald the third movement in which Mehta shows a feel for Mahler’s quirkiness with lyrical themes pitted against bitter interjections from brass, snaps of the rute, and the unforgettable trumpet solo at the core delivered beautifully. No one quite approaches Klemperer as an interpreter of this movement for me, though. Only he seems to get the full measure of this piece, not least in the "Cry of disgust" that marks a crucial "way point" towards the end. Mehta just fails to overwhelm here, as I’m sure he should. This leads me to wonder yet again whether what is missing in this recording, as in so many studio recordings of this work, is the extra element "live" performance brings in this above all of Mahler’s works. As the final note of the movement drifts away we are left with Christa Ludwig to intone "Urlicht" which she does with a dark grandeur aided by a sumptuous accompaniment from Mehta and the orchestra which I found deeply impressive.
The last movement bursts on us well, though a little more richness from the recording again would have helped. However, one positive aspect of the sound recording now becomes apparent in the distant horn calls - Mahler’s "voice in the wilderness" - that follows. The placing of Mahler’s directional effects – offstage horn calls and band music – is brilliantly done in this movement with great care taken to create an aural stage between our speakers that adds lustre to Mehta’s performance. His account of the march (220-88) sees him pressing forward but there is never any sense of rush. The weight in the music is there, but I don’t think he achieves the sense of explosive tension that can build up as the movement reaches its two great climaxes, the second preceded by that remarkable passage with the offstage band crashing away, capping the first. Again Klemperer pulls it off, so does Bernstein and Rattle. But I do like the way Mehta clears the scene with some magical string playing prior to the "Grosse Appell" where offstage fanfares sound against on-stage flutes signifying the last sound hear on earth prior to judgement day. This is balanced superbly by the Decca engineers working in their old haunt of the Sofiensaal in Vienna. One minor gripe here and it’s something that has always annoyed me in this recording. A double bar line separates the last chord of the flute and piccolo on stage and the brass off stage from the entry of the chorus a capella. Mehta ignores this and has his chorus enter at the moment the instruments stop playing. Apart from ignoring Mahler’s marking this spoils the effect Mahler was clearly aiming for and I cannot understand why Mehta did this. The chorus sings magnificently with some wonderful basses especially impressive. Mehta’s sense of theatre returns as he proceeds to the "Resurrection" coda that maintains the symphonic argument but is grand and reflective in equal measure. This is a fine studio version in the Walter tradition in that he takes everything at face value and is none the worse for that. The sound is not without problems. Everything is contained with ease but there’s a slight "manufactured" quality, which isn’t too obtrusive and certainly benefits from the superb placing of effects. Unlike with Kaplan, the presence of the Vienna Philharmonic is a real plus.
Και από εδώ υπάρχουν καλά λόγια:http://www.classicstoday.com
Artistic quality= 10
Sound quality= 8
Now we're talking Decca Legend. One of the great Mahler 2s, this 1975 recording has moved unceremoniously from a full-price 2 CD set, to a Decca Double (coupled with Mehta's masterful Schmidt Symphony No. 4), to at last this one-disc mid-price reissue. At least it's mostly stayed available, and deservedly so. If for nothing else, you'll want it just to hear the Vienna Philharmonic play like they're on fire! I mean they're alert, responsive, involved, and (dare I say it?) excited. They didn't sound this way for Abbado on DG a few years back, and they sure as hell didn't back in the 80's on Maazel's overly-weighty Sony Classical recording. Mehta's having none of that. This is a fresh, lithe and dynamic reading with loads of spontaneity. He gets all sections of the orchestra to play out: even the brass shed their "molded" tone in favor of a bright, ringing sound. It reminds me of Charles Mackerras's Janacek recordings (which also have you reaching for the CD cover to make sure it's the VPO). Percussion? Yeah, they're there too, playing like they mean it! Do I need to mention that Ileana Cotrubas and the always marvelous Christa Ludwig sing radiantly? And the Vienna State Opera Chorus? Wonderful! In the sound department, Decca has provided another one of their Sofiensaal spectaculars (OK, so there is a little tape saturation at a couple of climaxes--it is a 25 year old recording, after all.) This was clearly a really good day for everybody involved, and the result has weathered the decades effortlessly. A must-hear.
--Victor Carr
Artistic quality= 10
Sound quality= 8
Now we're talking Decca Legend. One of the great Mahler 2s, this 1975 recording has moved unceremoniously from a full-price 2 CD set, to a Decca Double (coupled with Mehta's masterful Schmidt Symphony No. 4), to at last this one-disc mid-price reissue. At least it's mostly stayed available, and deservedly so. If for nothing else, you'll want it just to hear the Vienna Philharmonic play like they're on fire! I mean they're alert, responsive, involved, and (dare I say it?) excited. They didn't sound this way for Abbado on DG a few years back, and they sure as hell didn't back in the 80's on Maazel's overly-weighty Sony Classical recording. Mehta's having none of that. This is a fresh, lithe and dynamic reading with loads of spontaneity. He gets all sections of the orchestra to play out: even the brass shed their "molded" tone in favor of a bright, ringing sound. It reminds me of Charles Mackerras's Janacek recordings (which also have you reaching for the CD cover to make sure it's the VPO). Percussion? Yeah, they're there too, playing like they mean it! Do I need to mention that Ileana Cotrubas and the always marvelous Christa Ludwig sing radiantly? And the Vienna State Opera Chorus? Wonderful! In the sound department, Decca has provided another one of their Sofiensaal spectaculars (OK, so there is a little tape saturation at a couple of climaxes--it is a 25 year old recording, after all.) This was clearly a really good day for everybody involved, and the result has weathered the decades effortlessly. A must-hear.
--Victor Carr
Και από Gramophone :
Mahler's Resurrection Symphony is well suited to Compact Disc. The wide range of dynamics, particularly the off-stage brass in the finale, needs the spaciousness of the most modern recording techniques. It is a work that rarely fails in performance, building up inexorably to that thrilling final paean, an extraordinary affirmation of Christian faith whatever doubts the Jewish Mahler may have had. Yet, as I wrote when reviewing a previous recording, it is difficult to make the symphony equally moving as a recording—one needs the physical presence of the forces involved and to be present in the hall.
But there are exceptions. Bruno Walter's CBS performance is one, its age notwithstanding, and Zubin Mehta's is another. I had not heard Mehta's recording before and it came as a major surprise to me. He does not come first to mind among Mahler conductors but this is a splendid interpretation, exciting, broadly conceived and fully justifying the accounts one has read about the 'special relationship' said to exist between him and the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra. They sound much happier with him than they are with Maazel's much slower, sometimes plodding tempos (CBS).
The recording sounds to me as fresh and vivid as if it had been made a few weeks ago. It is in Decca's best tradition, with no distortion in the balance, no close-focus on solo instruments and yet with a telling 'presence' that suggests the vibrancy of a public performance. This is apparent from the opening of the first movement, when the cellos' and basses' triple forte—marked wild by Mahler—really bites into the strings and the violins' entry with the second subject is silken in its expressiveness. Mehta is scrupulous throughout the symphony in his rhythmic emphasis on staccato notes and his clear differentiation between f and ff, by no means so common a virtue as it should be.
His tempos, too, strike me as exemplary, never holding back but observing Mahler's nicht eilen, the direction which the great composer-conductor wrote in just those places where he knew that an orchestra and a conductor would want to press on faster. The lighter second and third movements are delightfully characterized, so that the impact of the Judgement Day finale is all the greater, especially after Christa Ludwig's rapt singing of Urlicht. Her soprano partner is Ileana Cotrubas, whose more vulnerable, plaintive timbre provides a near-ideal contrast. As for the Vienna State Opera Chorus, their hushed first entry and their final outburst are alike impressive, and diction (especially of the basses) is superb.
This is a recorded performance to be compared with Slatkin's Telarc, which I rate as highly as any. As a technical achievement it comes close to Sinopoli on DG, a very fine performance but less involving than Mehta's and with less convincing soloists in Brigitte Fassbaender and Rosalind Plowright. On the other hand, the DG recording on Cd also includes the Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen and six of the early songs in the Harold Byrns orchestrations. This is something to be borne in mind when one is considering the expenditure involved. Neither Decca nor DG provides comprehensive indexing, surely something that ought to be done in such a long and complex movement as the finale.'
Mahler's Resurrection Symphony is well suited to Compact Disc. The wide range of dynamics, particularly the off-stage brass in the finale, needs the spaciousness of the most modern recording techniques. It is a work that rarely fails in performance, building up inexorably to that thrilling final paean, an extraordinary affirmation of Christian faith whatever doubts the Jewish Mahler may have had. Yet, as I wrote when reviewing a previous recording, it is difficult to make the symphony equally moving as a recording—one needs the physical presence of the forces involved and to be present in the hall.
But there are exceptions. Bruno Walter's CBS performance is one, its age notwithstanding, and Zubin Mehta's is another. I had not heard Mehta's recording before and it came as a major surprise to me. He does not come first to mind among Mahler conductors but this is a splendid interpretation, exciting, broadly conceived and fully justifying the accounts one has read about the 'special relationship' said to exist between him and the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra. They sound much happier with him than they are with Maazel's much slower, sometimes plodding tempos (CBS).
The recording sounds to me as fresh and vivid as if it had been made a few weeks ago. It is in Decca's best tradition, with no distortion in the balance, no close-focus on solo instruments and yet with a telling 'presence' that suggests the vibrancy of a public performance. This is apparent from the opening of the first movement, when the cellos' and basses' triple forte—marked wild by Mahler—really bites into the strings and the violins' entry with the second subject is silken in its expressiveness. Mehta is scrupulous throughout the symphony in his rhythmic emphasis on staccato notes and his clear differentiation between f and ff, by no means so common a virtue as it should be.
His tempos, too, strike me as exemplary, never holding back but observing Mahler's nicht eilen, the direction which the great composer-conductor wrote in just those places where he knew that an orchestra and a conductor would want to press on faster. The lighter second and third movements are delightfully characterized, so that the impact of the Judgement Day finale is all the greater, especially after Christa Ludwig's rapt singing of Urlicht. Her soprano partner is Ileana Cotrubas, whose more vulnerable, plaintive timbre provides a near-ideal contrast. As for the Vienna State Opera Chorus, their hushed first entry and their final outburst are alike impressive, and diction (especially of the basses) is superb.
This is a recorded performance to be compared with Slatkin's Telarc, which I rate as highly as any. As a technical achievement it comes close to Sinopoli on DG, a very fine performance but less involving than Mehta's and with less convincing soloists in Brigitte Fassbaender and Rosalind Plowright. On the other hand, the DG recording on Cd also includes the Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen and six of the early songs in the Harold Byrns orchestrations. This is something to be borne in mind when one is considering the expenditure involved. Neither Decca nor DG provides comprehensive indexing, surely something that ought to be done in such a long and complex movement as the finale.'
Δεν καταλαβαίνω τήν παράθεση γνωμών απο πιθανώς ´αξιόπιστους´κριτικούς.
Δεν μέ ενοχλεί,αλλά δεν την καταλαβαίνω.
Προσωπικά δεν μού προστίθενται σαν ένα επιπλέον επιχείρημα στην αξία μιάς ερμηνείας.
Ο Μehta έτσι και αλλοιώς είναι ένας μέτριος και απρόσωπος διευθυντής ορχήστρας,που όντως κατάφερε να ερμηνεύσει μιά καλή δευτερη.
Και το Penguine guide γραφει:'Μehta's account of the Second Symphony,if not quite,in Klemperer's league,is far more impressive that one might have expectedand is indeed one of his most distinguished recording achievements.' Oί άνθρωποι λένε ότι εξεπλάγησαν και οι ίδιοι.Ειναι σαν την κούρσα πού έκανε ο Πάντος και σέντραρε στον Νουνιες για να κανει το 4-0 εναντιον του βάζελου.Θα το ξανακάνει σε 20 χρόνια πάλι.
Ετυχε και πέτυχε ο άνθρωπος.Αλλά σε καμιά περίπτωση δεν μπορεί να συγκριθεί με μαέστρους πού επι συνέχεια ετών έχουν αποδείξει την αξία τους...Παραμένει δευτεράντζα(sorry για την μή ´κλασσική έκφραση´).
Τώρα στο κατά πόσον οι ερμηνείες τής δεκαετίας 50-60 που αναφέρθηκε κάπου αλλού είναι πομπώδεις,είναι όντως θέμα γούστου και εκτίμησης..
Πάντως ο Rattle τού 87 ακολουθεί κατά πόδας τον Klemperer του 1960.
Δεν μέ ενοχλεί,αλλά δεν την καταλαβαίνω.
Προσωπικά δεν μού προστίθενται σαν ένα επιπλέον επιχείρημα στην αξία μιάς ερμηνείας.
Ο Μehta έτσι και αλλοιώς είναι ένας μέτριος και απρόσωπος διευθυντής ορχήστρας,που όντως κατάφερε να ερμηνεύσει μιά καλή δευτερη.
Και το Penguine guide γραφει:'Μehta's account of the Second Symphony,if not quite,in Klemperer's league,is far more impressive that one might have expectedand is indeed one of his most distinguished recording achievements.' Oί άνθρωποι λένε ότι εξεπλάγησαν και οι ίδιοι.Ειναι σαν την κούρσα πού έκανε ο Πάντος και σέντραρε στον Νουνιες για να κανει το 4-0 εναντιον του βάζελου.Θα το ξανακάνει σε 20 χρόνια πάλι.
Ετυχε και πέτυχε ο άνθρωπος.Αλλά σε καμιά περίπτωση δεν μπορεί να συγκριθεί με μαέστρους πού επι συνέχεια ετών έχουν αποδείξει την αξία τους...Παραμένει δευτεράντζα(sorry για την μή ´κλασσική έκφραση´).
Τώρα στο κατά πόσον οι ερμηνείες τής δεκαετίας 50-60 που αναφέρθηκε κάπου αλλού είναι πομπώδεις,είναι όντως θέμα γούστου και εκτίμησης..
Πάντως ο Rattle τού 87 ακολουθεί κατά πόδας τον Klemperer του 1960.
Last edited:
Re: Απάντηση: Resurrection-Mahler Symphony No 2
Μα , σαν ερέθισμα για να προχωρήσει η συζήτηση, τι άλλο;
Μα , σαν ερέθισμα για να προχωρήσει η συζήτηση, τι άλλο;
Καί κάτι ακόμα.
Τα περιοδικά Κλασσικής Μουσικής,πολύ συχνά ,λόγω τής μηνιαίας εκδόσεώς τους,υποχρεώνονται να μνημονευουν δίσκους ως αξιοπρόσεκτους γιά λόγους εμπορικότητας.
Εξ´ού και εφευρίσκουν διάφορα tricks..Δισκος τού μήνα ,δίκος της εβδομάδας και πάει λέγοντας..Η και ´σπρώχνουν´νέους καλλιτέχνες...Αυτό ειδικά στην Οπερα γίνεται εσκεμμένα καί προκλητικά.
Τελικά πολλές απ´αυτές τις εκτελέσεις παίρνουν την θέση πού τούς αναλογεί.
Τα περιοδικά Κλασσικής Μουσικής,πολύ συχνά ,λόγω τής μηνιαίας εκδόσεώς τους,υποχρεώνονται να μνημονευουν δίσκους ως αξιοπρόσεκτους γιά λόγους εμπορικότητας.
Εξ´ού και εφευρίσκουν διάφορα tricks..Δισκος τού μήνα ,δίκος της εβδομάδας και πάει λέγοντας..Η και ´σπρώχνουν´νέους καλλιτέχνες...Αυτό ειδικά στην Οπερα γίνεται εσκεμμένα καί προκλητικά.
Τελικά πολλές απ´αυτές τις εκτελέσεις παίρνουν την θέση πού τούς αναλογεί.
Απάντηση: Re: Απάντηση: Resurrection-Mahler Symphony No 2
Προσωπικά μού είναι εντελώς αδιάφορες.
Μα , σαν ερέθισμα για να προχωρήσει η συζήτηση, τι άλλο;
Προσωπικά μού είναι εντελώς αδιάφορες.
Δημήτρης Ν.
AVClub Fanatic
Καλά , είχε ποτέ κανείς διαφορετική γνώμη από εσάς και επέζησε ; :flipout::flipout:
( προσωπικά δεν έχω γνώμη , διότι δεν έχω ακούσει ούτε καν μία από τις εκτελέσεις που ανεφέρθησαν εδώ μέσα - και ούτε πρόκειται αν δεν υποκύψει ο Δημοκηδής και δεν μου κάνει δώρο την 2η με τον Klemperer ) . Αλλά και να τις ακούσω πάλι δεν θα έχω γνώμη ....
( προσωπικά δεν έχω γνώμη , διότι δεν έχω ακούσει ούτε καν μία από τις εκτελέσεις που ανεφέρθησαν εδώ μέσα - και ούτε πρόκειται αν δεν υποκύψει ο Δημοκηδής και δεν μου κάνει δώρο την 2η με τον Klemperer ) . Αλλά και να τις ακούσω πάλι δεν θα έχω γνώμη ....
Δημήτρης Ν.
AVClub Fanatic
Ντέφι να γίνει . Το πήρα . 6,90 . Τρίτη απόπειρα στον Μάλερ και δη με εκτέλεση που πανθομολογουμένως η μουσική κατηγορία του φόρουμ θεωρεί αριστουργηματική . Αναμείνατε εντυπώσεις ( πήρα και κάτι άλλα μαζί , θα σας τα πω όλα if anyone cares )