MadVR: Ρυθμίσεις, Προβλήματα, FAQ [Part II]

Georg_

Established Member
24 February 2012
127
Δεν είμαι σίγουρος πού να το ρωτήσω αυτό. Θεωρείται το madvr η καλύτερη λύση γιατί κάνει καλύτερη αποκωδικοποίηση/αποσυμπίεση ή γιατί έχει πιο αναλυτικές ρυθμίσεις ώστε να μπορείς να διορθώσεις μικροπροβλήματα ή αδυναμίες του μέσου απεικόνισης; Αναφέρομαι σε θέαση μη επανασυμπιεσμένου bd από iso σε προβολέα.
 
19 June 2006
35,671
Ο mad είναι renderer, όχι video en/decoder. Όπως χαρακτηριστικά λέει ο Αλέξανδρος (Portioli) είναι καλύτερος γιατί ζωγραφίζει πιο όμορφα την εικόνα μας. Το decoding το κάνει ο lav.

Όταν λες αδυναμίες του μέσου απεικόνισης, τι ακριβώς εννοείς? Δηλαδή, τι σκοπεύεις να διορθώσεις με τη χρήση του mad?
 

Georg_

Established Member
24 February 2012
127
Re: Απάντηση: MadVR: Ρυθμίσεις, Προβλήματα, FAQ [Part II]

Όταν είχα ρωτήσει για το mpc-hc σε σχέση με το xbmc μου είχατε πει ότι είναι καλύτερο γιατί έχει περισσότερες ρυθμίσεις. Αυτές (γενικώς, όχι του mpchc), όμως, θεωρώ ότι τις χρειάζεσαι όταν το μέσο προβολής (ή κάποιος άλλος κρίκος στην αλυσίδα) έχει κάποια εγγενή θέματα, που καλείσαι να διορθώσεις ώστε να αποκαταστήσεις την ταινία στην πρόθεση του σκηνοθέτη/φωτογράφου. Όταν όμως το μέσο προβολής είναι καλό αυτά γενικά είναι στη default θέση (θεωρώντας ότι αυτή είναι η "απείραχτη", χωρίς φίλτρα κλπ.). Θεωρώ ότι δεν έχω θέμα να διορθώσω, γι' αυτό ρωτάω αν έχει νόημα να περιπλέξω την κατάσταση κάνοντας το xbmc να παίζει με mpchc και madvr (θεωρώντας ότι έχω καταλάβει καλά ότι το xbmc έχει το πρακτικότερο UI).
 

Portioli

Supreme Member
3 June 2007
3,924
Dystopia
Απάντηση: Re: Απάντηση: MadVR: Ρυθμίσεις, Προβλήματα, FAQ [Part II]

Όταν είχα ρωτήσει για το mpc-hc σε σχέση με το xbmc μου είχατε πει ότι είναι καλύτερο γιατί έχει περισσότερες ρυθμίσεις. Αυτές (γενικώς, όχι του mpchc), όμως, θεωρώ ότι τις χρειάζεσαι όταν το μέσο προβολής (ή κάποιος άλλος κρίκος στην αλυσίδα) έχει κάποια εγγενή θέματα, που καλείσαι να διορθώσεις ώστε να αποκαταστήσεις την ταινία στην πρόθεση του σκηνοθέτη/φωτογράφου. Όταν όμως το μέσο προβολής είναι καλό αυτά γενικά είναι στη default θέση (θεωρώντας ότι αυτή είναι η "απείραχτη", χωρίς φίλτρα κλπ.). Θεωρώ ότι δεν έχω θέμα να διορθώσω, γι' αυτό ρωτάω αν έχει νόημα να περιπλέξω την κατάσταση κάνοντας το xbmc να παίζει με mpchc και madvr (θεωρώντας ότι έχω καταλάβει καλά ότι το xbmc έχει το πρακτικότερο UI).

Για να είμαι ειλικρινής δεν θυμάμαι τέτοια συζήτηση.

Σε κάθε περίπτωση είμαστε τεχνολογικό φόρουμ.
Δοκιμάζεις, βλέπεις αν σου αρέσει, ζυγίζεις τις ανάγκες σου και αποφασίζεις το πόσο και αν αξίζει να βάλλεις εξωτερικό Player.
 
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rider

Supreme Member
5 December 2006
8,069
O φακελος του madvr περιεχει δυο install.bat,βασικα δυο απο ολα τα αρχεια .Κανουμε install αυτο με το μεγαλυτερο μεγεθος ? Η μηπως και τα δυο ? Κατεβασα και παλιοτερες εκδοσεις αλλα βλεπω οτι ολα ετσι ειναι.
 

thinredline

New member
15 October 2012
87
Γεια σας.
Επειδή εδώ και 2 μέρες μόνο χρησιμοποιώ τον madVR θα ήθελα να ρωτήσω τί ακριβώς είναι τα windowed και exclusive;
ναι, είδα το πρώτο ποστ, αλλά και πάλι δεν κατάλαβα.
Γιατί όταν ανοίγω τον mpc και πάω σε full screen μου βγάζει exclusive πάνω αριστερά, και μετά αν πατήσω δεξί κλικ για να δω τις επιλογές του MPC μου βγάζει windowed, και μετά όταν το αφήνω πάλι exclusive και γενικά πηγαινοέρχεται μεταξύ αυτών των modes;
Το βρίσκω λίγο εκνευριστικό.
 

thinredline

New member
15 October 2012
87
Οκ, ευχαριστώ.
Βασικά το "διόρθωσα" αυτό, (έβαλα στις επιλογές το overlay) και τώρα δεν το κάνει.
Αλλά απ'ότι βλέπω λένε ότι το fullscreen exclusive είναι το καλύτερο.
Αυτό τώρα δεν καταλαβαίνω.
Ποιά η διαφορά στην ποιότητα; Τί ακριβώς διαφέρει;
 

Portioli

Supreme Member
3 June 2007
3,924
Dystopia
νέα έκδοση v0.85.0

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

Code:
madVR v0.85.0

* added support for external DXVA2 decoders
* added support for DXVA2 scaling
* added support for custom pixel shaders (pre- and post-scaling)
* added support for media player color controls (IVMRMixerControl9)
* added support for "IQualProp" interface for media player statistics display
* added (crappy) support for high-bitdepth, 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 DXVA2 deinterlacing
* changed default scaling settings
 

Emilot

AVClub Fanatic
18 June 2006
32,852
Εξάρχεια
Re: Νέες Εκδόσεις Software

Αυτό σημαίνει ότι ο madvr υποστηρίζει DXVA2 native ή όχι;

Σημαίνει οτι υποστηρίζει decoders που υποστηρίζουν dxva2...... Δηλαδή θα χρειαστεί κάποιον εξωτερικό decoder(lav filter π.χ.)...για να κάνει την δουλειά.... Πολύ σημαντικό βέβαια η προσθήκη υποστήριξης...

Ας περιμένουμε τον Portioli να μας πει λεπτομέρειες....
 

Portioli

Supreme Member
3 June 2007
3,924
Dystopia
Re: Νέες Εκδόσεις Software

Σημαίνει οτι υποστηρίζει decoders που υποστηρίζουν dxva2...... Δηλαδή θα χρειαστεί κάποιον εξωτερικό decoder(lav filter π.χ.)...για να κάνει την δουλειά.... Πολύ σημαντικό βέβαια η προσθήκη υποστήριξης...

Ας περιμένουμε τον Portioli να μας πει λεπτομέρειες....

Και εγώ αυτό καταλαβαίνω.
Δεν μου έχει δουλέψει ακόμα όμως.
Άμα έχω νέα θα τα ποστάρω αύριο.
 

Portioli

Supreme Member
3 June 2007
3,924
Dystopia
λοιπόν βρήκα το post που έχει όλες τις αλλαγές τις προηγούμενης έκδοσης:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=146228&page=777


όποιος έχει υπομονή ας το διαβάσει.


The list of changes appears to be small, but the changes are quite important. Let me add some comments:

(1) External DXVA2 decoders should now work just fine in native mode without needing "copyback". This should improve performance, especially for ATI/AMD users.

(2) DXVA2 scaling uses the GPU hardware/drivers to do image scaling. Scaling is done from NV12 -> NV12, so the GPU has to scale both luma and chroma, but madVR still has to upscale chroma to full resolution afterwards. Unfortunately most GPUs don't support YCbCr 4:4:4 output, so I can't do it any other way. Ok, I could let the GPU convert to 8bit RGB, but we really don't want that because then the GPU does the color conversion, in low bitdepth, without dithering.

Since scaling is done by the GPU hardware/drivers, scaling quality will differ depending on the GPU hardware/drivers. Also I've been told (not sure if it's true) that Intel has dedicated hardware circuits to do the scaling while NVidia and AMD are using pixel shaders instead. So it's possible that the performance benefit on Intel hardware might be bigger than on NVidia/AMD hardware. Please test this and let me know the quality of the scaling algorithms, and the performance compared to madVR scaling algorithms with your GPU. Please also note that the video settings in the GPU control panel may very well affect DXVA2 scaling results.

(3) Custom pixel shaders in MPC-HC should work just fine now with madVR. However, a new MPC-HC build will be necessary. I'll make the necessary changes available to the MPC-HC devs later today. For now I've uploaded a custom MPC-HC build here, so you can start playing with it:

http://madshi.net/mpc-hc.zip

Please note that madVR always runs custom pixel shaders in R'G'B' with black at 16.0/255.0 and white at 235.0/255.0. I'm not sure how EVR/VMR runs custom pixel shaders. Maybe I'll need to adjust this to match EVR/VMR, we'll have to wait and see.

(4) madVR now supports media player color controls (brightness, contrast, saturation and hue). Currently you can't adjust these settings inside of madVR, the media player has to do that, by using the official IVMRMixerControl9 interface.

For brightness and contrast, I'm not using the usual algorithms. The standard GPU brightness control adds a fixed value to every RGB channel, so it increases both the black and white levels by the same amount. The standard GPU contrast control stretches the data, so white and black levels move away from (or nearer to) each other. While these standard GPU controls appear somewhat intuitive, using them means that brightness and contrast fight with each other. When setting up your display, you have to change both all the time and go back and forth.

The madVR brightness control only modifies the white level, but keeps the black level identical. The madVR contrast control only modified the black level, but keeps the white level identical. The name "brightness" somewhat fits to what madVR does, but the "contrast" name doesn't really fit well. It's more like "blackness" or "black level". I decided to implement it this way because I think it makes setting up the displays easier. But this is open for discussion: If you don't like madVR's brightness/contrast behaviour, let me know, maybe we can find a better solution together.

The madVR saturation and hue settings work as usual, however I'm performing the modifications in linear light (which is the only correct way to do saturation/hue adjustments), while the other renderers and GPU drivers usually adjust these things in gamma corrected light.

(5) DXVA2 deinterlacing (and DXVA2 scaling, too) now works with all YCbCr formats which madVR supports, regardless of bitdepth and chroma format. *However*, since all GPUs perform the best deinterlacing only with NV12, madVR automatically converts all YCbCr formats down to NV12, when doing DXVA2 deinterlacing. And madVR does not contain high-quality downconversion routines for this yet. It's a simple round down at the moment. This might be improved in a (far away) future build. For now you might get slightly better quality by letting LAV Video Decoder downconvert to NV12. IIRC nevcairiel has implement some nice downconversion routines with dithering etc...

(6) When using any DXVA2 related functionality with madVR, there's a small blur added to the chroma channel, when using NVidia or Intel hardware. This does not happen with AMD hardware. Currently I've no way to fix this. But it has always been this way and nobody complained until now, so it doesn't seem to be much of a problem. I have it on my to do list to fix this, but it will require a new CUDA version from NVidia and I'll need Sandy Bridge hardware (which I currently don't have) to test a possible fix for Intel.

(7) The new default scaling settings are Lanczos3 AR for image upscaling, Catmull-Rom AR with Linear Light for downscaling and Bilinear for Chroma. I've selected these algorithms with an eye on performance, as well as quality. If your GPU is fast enough, you definitely want to use something better than Bilinear, but for users with slow GPUs the best quality compromise IMHO is to use Bilinear chroma upsampling. Just my personal opinion, of course, and everybody please feel free to disagree. For really fast GPUs my recommended settings now would be Jinc3 AR for both chroma and image upscaling and Catmull-Rom AR with Linear Light for image downscaling.


Έχει πολύ ψωμί τελικά.
Mε lav video και το DXVA2 ενεργοποιημένο μου κρασάρει πάντως.
Όποιος θέλει ας δοκιμάσει.
 

Emilot

AVClub Fanatic
18 June 2006
32,852
Εξάρχεια
λοιπόν βρήκα το post που έχει όλες τις αλλαγές τις προηγούμενης έκδοσης:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=146228&page=777


όποιος έχει υπομονή ας το διαβάσει.


Έχει πολύ ψωμί τελικά.
Mε lav video και το DXVA2 ενεργοποιημένο μου κρασάρει πάντως.
Όποιος θέλει ας δοκιμάσει.

Εμένα παίζει αλλά με κοψίματα στο dxva copy back.....Θα δοκιμάσω native.....
 

Emilot

AVClub Fanatic
18 June 2006
32,852
Εξάρχεια
Re: Νέες Εκδόσεις Software

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

Code:

madVR v0.85.3

* added support for external DXVA2 decoders
* added support for DXVA2 scaling
* added support for custom pixel shaders (pre- and post-scaling)
* added support for media player color controls (IVMRMixerControl9)
* added support for "IQualProp" interface for media player statistics display
* added (crappy) support for high-bitdepth, 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 DXVA2 deinterlacing
* added dithering to 10/16bit -> NV12 conversion routines
* added SSE2 routine for P010/P016/P210/P216 -> NV12 conversion
* added options for custom display output levels
* added display specific color controls
* added volatile source color controls, with keyboard shortcuts
* added color correction and auto-loading for new subtitle interface
* added auto correction if FPS upstream info is wrong by 2x or 0.5x factor
* added support for IVideoWindow:: put_BorderColor( )
* added double/triple expanded TV range to "source levels" toggle
 

Emilot

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18 June 2006
32,852
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Re: Νέες Εκδόσεις Software

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

Code:

madVR v0.85.4

* added support for external DXVA2 decoders
* added support for DXVA2 scaling
* added support for custom pixel shaders (pre- and post-scaling)
* added support for media player color controls (IVMRMixerControl9)
* added support for "IQualProp" interface for media player statistics display
* added (crappy) support for high-bitdepth, 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 DXVA2 deinterlacing
* added dithering to 10/16bit -> NV12 conversion routines
* added SSE2 routine for P010/P016/P210/P216 -> NV12 conversion
* added options for custom display output levels
* added display specific color controls
* added volatile source color controls, with keyboard shortcuts
* added color correction and auto-loading for new subtitle interface
* added auto correction if FPS upstream info is wrong by 2x or 0.5x factor
* added support for IVideoWindow::put_BorderColor()
* added double/triple expanded TV range to "source levels" toggle
* added "trade quality" option "use half frame rate for DXVA deinterlacing"
* added support for several new file name tags
 

Emilot

AVClub Fanatic
18 June 2006
32,852
Εξάρχεια
Re: Νέες Εκδόσεις Software

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

Code:

madVR v0.85.5

* added support for external DXVA2 decoders
* added support for DXVA2 scaling
* added support for custom pixel shaders (pre- and post-scaling)
* added support for media player color controls (IVMRMixerControl9)
* added support for "IQualProp" interface for media player statistics display
* added (crappy) support for high-bitdepth, 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 DXVA2 deinterlacing
* added dithering to 10/16bit -> NV12 conversion routines
* added SSE2 routine for P010/P016/P210/P216 -> NV12 conversion
* added options for custom display output levels
* added display specific color controls
* added volatile source color controls, with keyboard shortcuts
* added color correction and auto-loading for new subtitle interface
* added auto correction if FPS upstream info is wrong by 2x or 0.5x factor
* added support for IVideoWindow::put_BorderColor()
* added double/triple expanded TV range to "source levels" toggle
* added "trade quality" option "use half frame rate for DXVA deinterlacing"
* added support for several new file name tags
* up to 56% speed improvement for Jinc3 chroma upscaling
* up to 40% speed improvement for Jinc3 AR chroma upscaling
* up to 53% speed impr. for Jinc3/4 image upscaling with 2x scaling factor
* up to 47% speed impr. for Jinc3/4 AR image upscaling with 2x scaling factor
* up to 39% speed impr. for non-Jinc image upscaling with 2x scaling factor
* up to 27% speed impr. for non-Jinc AR image upscaling with 2x scaling factor
* up to 44% speed impr. for non-Jinc image upscaling with 3x scaling factor


Please note that the speed improvements only apply in very specific circumstances. E.g. the Jinc chroma upsampling speed improvement only applies to 3-taps (with or without AR). There's no improvement for Jinc4/8 chroma upscaling. And all the other improvements only apply if there's an *exact* 2x or 3x scaling factor requested by the media player. With any other scaling factor there's no improvement at all for image scaling performance. The exact scaling factors of 2x and 3x allow me to write hard wired shader code which runs more efficiently, thus the speed improvement. There are no further similar improvements for other scaling factors planned. The 3x scaling factor improvements only apply when not using AR. There's no improvement for 3x AR image upscaling.

The main purpose of the 2x and 3x speed improvements is the upcoming UltraHD (4k) displays. Now with v0.85.5 you can upscale Blu-Ray to UltraHD with significantly lower GPU usage, as long as you use exactly 2x upscaling. Also 720p -> UltraHD happens to be exactly 3x upscaling, so that's why I added some dedicated 3x pixel shaders, too. Please note that the exact speed improvement depends on the circumstances and especially on the GPU model.
 

Emilot

AVClub Fanatic
18 June 2006
32,852
Εξάρχεια
Re: Νέες Εκδόσεις Software

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

Code:

madVR v0.85.6.1

* added support for external DXVA2 decoders
* added support for DXVA2 scaling
* added support for custom pixel shaders (pre- and post-scaling)
* added support for media player color controls (IVMRMixerControl9)
* added support for "IQualProp" interface for media player statistics display
* added (crappy) support for high-bitdepth, 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 DXVA2 deinterlacing
* added dithering to 10/16bit -> NV12 conversion routines
* added SSE2 routine for P010/P016/P210/P216 -> NV12 conversion
* added options for custom display output levels
* added display specific color controls
* added volatile source color controls, with keyboard shortcuts
* added color correction and auto-loading for new subtitle interface
* added auto correction if FPS upstream info is wrong by 2x or 0.5x factor
* added support for IVideoWindow::put_BorderColor()
* added double/triple expanded TV range to "source levels" toggle
* added a couple "trade quality for performance" options
* added support for several new file name tags
* up to 56% speed improvement for Jinc3 chroma upscaling
* up to 40% speed improvement for Jinc3 AR chroma upscaling
* up to 53% speed impr. for Jinc3/4 image upscaling with 2x scaling factor
* up to 47% speed impr. for Jinc3/4 AR image upscaling with 2x scaling factor
* up to 39% speed impr. for non-Jinc image upscaling with 2x scaling factor
* up to 27% speed impr. for non-Jinc AR image upscaling with 2x scaling factor
* up to 44% speed impr. for non-Jinc image upscaling with 3x scaling factor


* fixed: Jinc 3x image upscaling was broken (introduced in v0.85.5)
* fixed: settings dialog eventually crashed when media player was closed first
* removed "perform deinterlacing in separate thread" option (now always on)
* moved "use a separate device for DXVA processing" to a different tab
* option "use a separate device for presentation" now disabled by default
* sorted "trade quality for performance" options: "best" options first
* added two more DXVA related "trade quality for performance" options
* fixed: "use a separate device for DXVA processing" couldn't be activated
 
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